1 00:00:08,559 --> 00:00:11,599 Working at Dark Knight, I knew I had 2 00:00:11,599 --> 00:00:14,240 nothing if I didn't have the Joker's 3 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,240 motif. 4 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:25,199 I wasn't thinking about a bad guy. I was 5 00:00:25,199 --> 00:00:27,039 just completely intrigued by the 6 00:00:27,039 --> 00:00:29,519 character and I kept thinking, "Oh, hang 7 00:00:29,519 --> 00:00:31,519 on a second. He's the he's the only one 8 00:00:31,519 --> 00:00:33,680 who always tells the truth in this 9 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:35,760 movie." You know, everybody else is sort 10 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:37,680 of I don't know, they're bullshitting or 11 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:39,280 they're, you know, they're lying or 12 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:40,640 they're not being straightforward or 13 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:42,719 they're being secretive. You know, the 14 00:00:42,719 --> 00:00:44,320 Joker comes up to you and he tells you 15 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:46,079 exactly what he thinks and he tells you 16 00:00:46,079 --> 00:00:48,559 the truth. I thought that was admirable 17 00:00:48,559 --> 00:00:52,000 in in a way and and his sense of 18 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,039 anarchy, you know, tossing things up 19 00:00:55,039 --> 00:00:57,760 into the air, you know, is maybe 20 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:02,480 something that I quite like. So, um, I 21 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:04,559 never I, you know, I never I never did 22 00:01:04,559 --> 00:01:06,560 the, you know, the, you know, the the 23 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,040 the big 24 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,920 evil courts thing, you know. It's like, 25 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,159 um, I did it I did him quite the 26 00:01:14,159 --> 00:01:16,000 opposite, you know. I was much more sort 27 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,960 of a punk attitude which I which I can 28 00:01:18,960 --> 00:01:22,080 sort of get into and you know just 29 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,000 anarchy in Gotham City. It's just like 30 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,000 fun. 31 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:41,759 I need to know what the spine of that 32 00:01:41,759 --> 00:01:43,920 character is. Sometimes I need to know 33 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,240 what his heart is, but really it's, you 34 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:47,759 know, what what what makes the thing 35 00:01:47,759 --> 00:01:50,720 tick or what makes what gives tension to 36 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:53,439 it. It took a while to get to something 37 00:01:53,439 --> 00:01:56,399 so incredibly simple. And, you know, one 38 00:01:56,399 --> 00:01:58,799 of the first things I realized was the 39 00:01:58,799 --> 00:02:01,840 the most compelling thing I could do 40 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,640 rather than, you know, you think, you 41 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:06,479 know, he's this bad guy, it's anarchy, 42 00:02:06,479 --> 00:02:08,879 it's, you know, he blows stuff up. Let's 43 00:02:08,879 --> 00:02:11,360 be loud and ballsy. And I did exactly 44 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,640 the opposite. It was very very quiet. So 45 00:02:14,640 --> 00:02:16,560 you sort of had to lean in. I think 46 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,920 there's something something much more to 47 00:02:19,920 --> 00:02:22,640 be had out of an audience having to lean 48 00:02:22,640 --> 00:02:25,640 in. 49 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,879 Hey, you wait like everybody else, pal. 50 00:02:32,879 --> 00:02:35,120 And it starts off. It just whispers at 51 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,519 you, you know, just whispers, gets a 52 00:02:37,519 --> 00:02:39,599 little unstable, starts rising. 53 00:02:39,599 --> 00:02:42,400 What the hell is that? Obstruction 54 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:44,239 ahead. Obstruction ahead. 55 00:02:44,239 --> 00:02:46,000 Damn it. All units, divert down on the 56 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,000 lower fifth. I repeat, exit down. 57 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:48,959 Exit down. 58 00:02:48,959 --> 00:02:50,480 Lower fifth. We'll be like turkeys on 59 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:52,319 Thanksgiving down there. 60 00:02:52,319 --> 00:02:54,400 One of the problems with music is you 61 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:56,239 always know when something is finishing 62 00:02:56,239 --> 00:02:58,720 or when it comes to a resolution or when 63 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,280 the tension is going to be released. I 64 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,159 was just playing with the ideas that uh 65 00:03:04,159 --> 00:03:05,599 what happens if you never release 66 00:03:05,599 --> 00:03:08,400 tension? Is there such a thing as 67 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:10,319 infinite tension? You know, it's the 68 00:03:10,319 --> 00:03:12,879 idea of 69 00:03:12,879 --> 00:03:16,239 a bow or steel, you know, steel cable 70 00:03:16,239 --> 00:03:18,239 being pulled and figuring out when will 71 00:03:18,239 --> 00:03:19,680 it snap. And I'm not going to tell you 72 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:21,760 when it will snap. And I never let it 73 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:26,319 snap. Um, so you you're just you're just 74 00:03:26,319 --> 00:03:28,159 holding your breath constantly because 75 00:03:28,159 --> 00:03:29,519 you know sooner or later it's going to 76 00:03:29,519 --> 00:03:32,400 snap and just tear your face. You know, 77 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,640 it's like a guitar string which is too 78 00:03:34,640 --> 00:03:38,480 tight. Um, so, so the sound itself has a 79 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:40,640 builtin recklessness and a built-in 80 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:42,879 danger to it. And it's really actually 81 00:03:42,879 --> 00:03:45,280 very quiet, you know, and it's not 82 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:47,280 bassy, you know, usually usually, you 83 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:49,120 know, the bad guys, you put a load of 84 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:50,640 bass in. I mean, there there all these 85 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:52,640 cliches just like the violins for the 86 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:54,879 love scene. There all these cliches and 87 00:03:54,879 --> 00:03:58,879 and and and part of the the fun is to go 88 00:03:58,879 --> 00:04:01,040 uh let let me show you or let me play 89 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:02,319 you something that you haven't heard 90 00:04:02,319 --> 00:04:05,319 before. 91 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:31,360 I I on purpose picked an instrument that 92 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:33,520 that number one it can rise seem 93 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,160 seamlessly. Um, but on the other hand, 94 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,880 you don't expect it to play up there. 95 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:42,800 And secondly, it's really really hard to 96 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:44,800 do. And and and 97 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,759 really what happened was that um I mean 98 00:04:47,759 --> 00:04:51,919 I was torturing my chist Martin because 99 00:04:51,919 --> 00:04:57,199 it as an idea it becomes very it's such 100 00:04:57,199 --> 00:05:00,000 a simple idea that you know it you could 101 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,320 always hear him acting it. I actually 102 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,360 had written him an instruction manual. 103 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,240 Start slightly worried, you know, little 104 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:10,479 bit more anxiety in it. And I know the 105 00:05:10,479 --> 00:05:12,240 last sentence, the last words were 106 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:14,320 [ __ ] bricks. Um, you know, so there 107 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,560 was this sort of chart of, you know, a 108 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:18,560 performance note, you know, and at what 109 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:23,360 point of where we are in the rise. Um, 110 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:25,520 and you know, by this t time he was so 111 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,560 beaten up. He hated me so much. um you 112 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:32,320 know this is not what he spent his whole 113 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:33,919 youth 114 00:05:33,919 --> 00:05:36,320 learning how to play the cello for you 115 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:37,520 know this was something completely 116 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:41,520 different um but I need I needed to have 117 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,560 that sort of just casual you know it's 118 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:48,080 just of course I can pull this string to 119 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,960 till it snaps you know I needed to have 120 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,560 the that that sort of recklessness in 121 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:04,720 The reason why it's good to have a car a 122 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:06,960 strong character motif which can be just 123 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,360 one note in the case of the Joker is 124 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,600 because it becomes very efficient that 125 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:13,520 when you don't see the character on the 126 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:15,600 screen 127 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,880 you know we have shots of the city and 128 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:22,400 we just put that one note and and you go 129 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:24,880 He's coming. 130 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,360 So, 131 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:29,440 so it's a it's it's a great storytelling 132 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:31,680 device. 133 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:32,639 Who was that? 134 00:06:32,639 --> 00:06:34,400 What happened? 135 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:36,319 He took our guns. 136 00:06:36,319 --> 00:06:38,000 I think point of view is very important 137 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:39,919 in a movie. Whose point of view am I 138 00:06:39,919 --> 00:06:41,919 seeing this from? 139 00:06:41,919 --> 00:06:44,960 It's certainly not 140 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,520 the point of view of the audience. It's 141 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:49,120 sort of the point of view that's that 142 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:50,639 that 143 00:06:50,639 --> 00:06:53,440 takes place inside the movie. And it it 144 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,880 it's it's it's interesting because, you 145 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,280 know, if you take something like The 146 00:06:59,280 --> 00:07:02,880 Dark Knight, if I I could have made that 147 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:04,880 whole movie from the Joker's point of 148 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:07,199 view and it would have been morally 149 00:07:07,199 --> 00:07:09,680 quite a different story. You can you can 150 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,680 tilt 151 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,639 you can tilt the currents of of 152 00:07:16,639 --> 00:07:19,840 ambiguity constantly with a theme. You 153 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:21,599 know, really early on, you just figure 154 00:07:21,599 --> 00:07:25,919 out who whose movie is this, you know, 155 00:07:25,919 --> 00:07:28,240 whose story, whose story do I want to 156 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:29,759 tell. I mean, the, you know, the writer 157 00:07:29,759 --> 00:07:32,479 does that, too. But in a funny way be 158 00:07:32,479 --> 00:07:34,400 the the better the writing and the more 159 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:36,240 fleshed out the characters are, the more 160 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,800 interesting the you know the the 161 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:40,560 secondary characters become the 162 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:44,880 temptation becomes really um easy to go 163 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:48,240 and you know focus on the interesting 164 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,319 secondary character and and it it's just 165 00:07:50,319 --> 00:07:51,840 you sort of have to discipline yourself 166 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,800 a little bit. Again, this is where it 167 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,840 becomes really useful. Once you've done 168 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,360 your once you've mocked up your score on 169 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,000 synth or whatever whatever it takes to 170 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:06,800 do whatever your process is, put it in 171 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:08,960 front of an audience because you really 172 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:12,160 quickly notice that you got far too 173 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,360 interested in the dark side and that you 174 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,919 know you'll just love writing for the 175 00:08:17,919 --> 00:08:20,080 villain because it's a lot more fun than 176 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,639 writing for the for the happy people and 177 00:08:22,639 --> 00:08:24,479 you just tilted the whole movie the 178 00:08:24,479 --> 00:08:27,360 wrong way. You know, it's it all it's 179 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,759 all balancing. It's all all balancing 180 00:08:29,759 --> 00:08:32,759 act. 181 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:38,719 I had to be very careful that I didn't 182 00:08:38,719 --> 00:08:42,320 make him into a hero. Um because the 183 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,320 more 184 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:51,480 I invested in him, the more I loved him.